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Ekzamenoj estas utilaj

pbrewer's picture

Mi faras la ekzamenojn je lernu.net. Mi sukcesis je nivelo a (baza), sed malsukcesis je nivelo b (meza). Estis du afero mi ne komprenis. Do, jen:

1) Mi estas pripenseonta tion morgaŭ. Kial la n-formo?

Nu, ĉar "tio" estas objekto de "pripensi." Eĉ se tiu verbo ne estas en la frazo, la signifo ja estas. Do, devas esti "tion." (Kaj, kompreneble, "pripenseonta" ne havas -n, ĉar ĝi akordas kun "mi," ne kun "tio.")

2) Iru trans la straton. Refoje, kial la n-formo?

Nu, ĝuste kiel aliaj uzoj de -n por montri movon al:

  • Mi iras trans la straton: Mi iras al loko ĉe la fora flanko de la strato.
  • Mi iras trans la strato: Mi estas ĉe la fora flanko de la strato kaj mi iras (ien).

(Ŝajne ne nur mi malbone komprenas la diferencon. En ReVo la dua difino de "trans" estas "trans ...-n" markita kiel evitinde.)

Mi ne scias, kiam mi lernus pri tio, se mi ne faris la ekzamenon. Do: ekzamenoj estas utilaj.

by pbrewer

Comments

Trans + akuzativo, ekzamenoj

Tim Westover's picture

"La kolera hundo saltis trans la barilo." --> Don't worry, it's safe on the other side, jumping up and down.

"La kolera hundo saltis trans la barilon." --> Watch out, it jumped across the fence and is coming your way!

I'm not sure that's a hard and fast rule, though, but it seems to fit with the pattern established by "en","sur","sub",etc.

I agree that exams are useful. I failed the "nivelo C" exam several times before finally succeeding. And then, after all that, I still failed "nivelo B" the first time I took it. The lernu! exams are quite picky, and we all have a lot to learn!

At the LK, AAIE and the Usona Ekzamena Servo may be administering exams. There are three levels -- komencgrada, duagrada, and supera. I seem to remember that the supera exam is about on the level of lernu's "nivelo B", but it's been a long time since I took the AAIE exams.

UEA / ILEI has exams now, too. Their supera exam looks intense, with a 20-page essay requirement, an essay defense, and more.

---
Tim Westover
Vice President, Esperanto-USA
timwestover (che) yahoo (punkto) com

May 15, 2009 by Tim Westover, 38 weeks 3 days ago

I believe "tion" is the

Yekrats's picture

I believe "tion" is the object of the future participle "pripensonta". Objects of a participle are still objects, and get the -n.

At PMEG ( http://bertilow.com/pmeg/gramatiko/participoj/a-vortoj.html ) there is an example "Li estis skribinta la leteron."

PMEG also says that you can use -n with trans if you want to emphasize the motion, but it is optional.
http://bertilow.com/pmeg/gramatiko/rolmontriloj/rolvortetoj/lokaj_rolvor...

May 15, 2009 by Yekrats, 38 weeks 4 days ago

Yeah, participles take

kvarko's picture

Yeah, participles take akuzative objects. Even in adverb form: "Trinkinte la kafon, mi pagis kaj foriris." (Aux io tia)

Pri la dua afero, ankaux mi ne rimarkis "trans ..n" kiam mi faris tiun ekzamenon.

May 17, 2009 by kvarko, 38 weeks 2 days ago

Right

pbrewer's picture

In fact, I'd seen and noticed those (adverbial participles with objects) many times, which is what led me astray: Seeing the participle with an object, I answered the test question with an adverbial form, rather than an adjectival form.

I suppose I must have seen adjectivals with objects many times too, but I guess I never noticed.

May 17, 2009 by pbrewer, 38 weeks 2 days ago

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